Thanks for the article, I have always wanted to see some evidence for calling associating Gehenna with a burning trash heap. The second results in being in danger of the council, and the third results in danger of the fire of Gehenna. This is then used as an example of a future judgment. Same with "aionian life". I find the scriptures remarkable, and you, sir, have nailed these difficult questions to the cross itself. In times of war, decaying human flesh mingled with the rotting garbageimagine the vile vision. 1. garbage dump - a piece of land where waste materials are dumped. But you are faking compassion you don't want the damned to suffer but have no problem with seeing them dead. One of the strange things about all of the talk about whether punishment is eternal or not is the fact that if the Lord had wanted to communicate the idea that punishment would be eternal, there are several ways to do this in Greek and make it crystal clear. Words can indeed mean different things at different times, with different context and different people. During the reign of King Josiah (640-609 B.C. From the reign of Josiah onward, it was used as a garbage dump where the fires burned the refuse continuously. Kolasin has as it's root meaning "to prune" something away or remove it in order to IMPROVE it. Still, because it seems like a reasonable explanation for the origin of the Hinnom Valley as "hell," commentators and preachers have accepted it. A prophecy in his book that has thus far not come true should not be used to build doctrine on. So at that point there will be no more "aionian" life, it will be the same life as was lived in the "aion", but now it will continue outside of time. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. As with the legend about the rope around the high priests ankle, this popular myth seems to have originated in Jewish circles in the Middle Ages. Eternal life doesn't mean that there is no time just as it doesn't mean there is no space. If it were "eternal pruning" and this doesn't make sense to you, your problem is with Christ. That the valley was just outside the city of Jerusalem made it an appropriate symbol for those excluded from divine blessing. At the same time, I hope you will believe me that the vast majority of Christians you believe in things like eternal salvation and damnation are not motivated by any joy in seeing other people suffer but by respect for Christ's teaching, Christ's judgement and for other people's freedom of choice. It does not need to be quenched. And then "the age" is either eternal both times or it is temporal. Revelation 9:6 says, And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. We can trace the develope a transition of the place of the dead from a pit to a water filled pit and then to similar with fire. Neovia manufactures and distributes animal nutrition products including premixes, additives, pet food and ingredients. UPDATE (4/29): The views of various scholars on the matter is presented in a new post. Most bibles that have copious cross-references for other verses with similarities like this strangely do not have any for this one.). Scholars have long claimed that Gehenna was a garbage dump where fires were burned. Paul turned a Christian over to satan for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH. If this parable is supposed to teach anything about punishment in the afterlife, you would think that this gulf would not be necessary. You are also disrespectful towards the damned it is one thing, as God does, to give them their just deserts, but quite another to simply blot them out from existence and pretend everything's fine. Who said it was a statement of limitation when did your "statement of fact" become a "statement of limitation"? But if they happened to return next week, would that mean that sinners from Sodom would not be punished for their sins? "Six seminaries" did not exist. Another portion of the ravine became a cesspool receiving the . Still, that's no basis for any claims about how eternal does not mean eternal or how undying fire/worms suddenly mean dying-only-later fire/worms. 1 [1841], 404-5). 1 Corinthians 15 you overreading again. And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. She offers the following highly imaginative description of this burning refuse heap, which serves as a nice, detailed amalgamation of all the descriptions Ive heard of it over the years. Gehenna, more commonly known as the Valley of Hinnom, Valley of the Son of Hinnom or Valley of the Children, is an actual valley in the city of Jerusalem. At least until a council comes along decades later and says that anyone not confessing a belief in an "eternal hell" is not a Christian? True enough. Ezekiel doesn't utter any either and he doesn't even touch on anything linked to "eternal fire". Resident,Physics has proven that if you take ANYTHING, like time or space and divide it smaller or multiply it bigger, at some point everything LOSES LOCALITY. In the context, it's a "causal" from (could even be translated as "by" as this Greek preposition is translated elsewhere in the NT) not a "spacial" from see 2 Thes. The punishment is given with the goal of improving the one punished. Matt. Case in point, Jude 1:7 it says that Sodom and Gomorrah served as example of those who will suffer the punishment of "eternal fire". Much less towards others with "universalist" leanings. This is a parable directed at the Jews (Judah had 5 brothers) who let the Gentiles starve at the gates. Thats the earliest reference we have to it- a Rabbi writing in the middle ages from Europe, not Israel, some 1100 years after Jesus was born. How does this work? I find it much easier to explain passages such as Matthew 25:46 in light of the above verses. Purchasers of the Photo Companion to the Bible and the Pictorial Library of Bible Lands are granted liberal usage rights for the images for personal and educational purposes. I also don't think we will be taking field trips out to look at burning and worm eaten bodies in eternity. Thats it. And as far as Rabbi Kimhi goes, note that even he stated the alleged dump of Gehenna became an analogy for the judgment of the wicked, which demonstrates that even the first writer to make this connection saw it to be an analogy for the place that the wicked will be judged. Why would anyone, especially people who are redeemed and survive the coming of the Lord to judge all flesh (v.16) want to go out to look at corpses full of worms and burning? Gehenna is the Greek version of the biblical word Gehinnom or Gei Hinnom (the valley of Hinnom Joshua 15:8). "In any case, Gregory Naziznen was allowed to preside over that council.". Unless otherwise noted, the posts are written by Todd Bolen, PhD, Professor of Biblical Studies at The Masters University. And just like all garbage dumps, there were worms. 66:24?. Gray land and gray sky throughout, with no sun . That did not happen. Located at the midpoint of the Lower Planes, it was a plane of evil balanced between Law and Chaos. Isa 66:2224 As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the LORD, so will your name and descendants endure. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. Isaiah 66:15-16 makes it pretty clear when the context of the rest of the chapter takes place. God is much more forgiving than that. If 'aeturnum' always means 'eternal' then Jerome put his foot in his mouth when he wrote this. The gulf represents the uncrossable separation it is not meant to keep the saved from going over there because they have no reason to do so, as they are with God and His people. You however are reading things into the words "aion" and "aionian". Matthew 25) of the "blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" and of the "cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.". One question to ask about the parable of the rich man and Lazarus Why the need for a gulf to keep those in Abraham's bosom from going to the other side where there was torment? So "time" as we know it is not eternal. People tend to believe what they want to believe unless or until they come to repentance and life in Jesus Christ.. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Salvation does not have to be eternal. I'm sure there will come forth a brilliant solution to this apparent contradiction that will make it disappear. In order to do that, the person must be either present or at least given the opportunity. Gehenna was not a dump outside Jerusalem. It doesn't say whether anyone would do that. First, you still seem to think you are in a position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs. This was a place where the fires were kept burning all the timenight and day. (v.23). "The three parables you mention also do not say how long the consequences for failure last or whether there is anything else to take place afterward.". Obviously, this fire is not still burning today, so this fire had an "age to come" or better put a "forever result" quality to it vs. a duration quality to it. They ignore the nature of both worms and fire to protect their doctrine of an eternal hell. He just told his audience that if there is part of your body that causes you to stumble, cut it off. Not necessarily. I confused the council of Nicea with the Nicene Creed that came out of the council at Constantinople later on. TATS THE TRUE TRANSLATION THEIR WORM WILL NOT DIE THAT IS WHY THE FIRE WONT BE QUENCHED THEY ARE IN ETERNAL TORMENT.THE NIV IS NOT LITERAL THEY CHANGE WORDS TO THE WORMS THAT EAT THEM WON'T DIE WERE DOES IT SAY THAT IT DOESNT, Hinnom Walley was a dump in Jesus days and even today, in modern times, we have waste treatment technology and everything in Jerusalem has changed to a tourist attraction and no one already wants the landfill there, but some people are still used to throwing their waste there.https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7686626,35.2333475,3a,56.6y,328.92h,103.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szm6A_bN1OCNC7ikOFCcVTw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656, Your email address will not be published. In Luke 16:26 Abraham explains why he can't send Lazarus to the rich man with a few drops of water. Why were heretics (if you believe that universal salvation is heresy)allowed to do this? From "The Fires of Gehenna: View of Scholars" by Todd Bolen, "The first is Edward Robinson, preeminent explorer of the Holy Land beginning in 1838. If ALL will be made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be viewed in light of that fact. Jude says Sodom and Gomorrah undergo vengeance in "eternal fire", and Ezekiel says that Sodom and her daughters will one day be restored to their former estate. Gehenna, garbage dump or a place of eternal punishment?/ Gordon Franz., Gordon Franz. So you don't want to "blot them out", you want to "reconcile all" but again this is just utter disrespect to human beings and their free will, which in turn is a denial of the opportunity to love. It might have been just as well to not press it. The valley was the scene of human sacrifices, burned in the worship of Moloch (2 Kings 16:3 and 21:6), which accounts for the prophecy of Jeremiah that it would be called the Valley of Slaughter under judgment of God (Jer. It is possible to use a word, like aionian, to make a statement of fact, without being forced to use it as a statement of limitation. But that statement says nothing about God no longer being God after the ages. Click the card to flip We should rather shun them than let them damage our salvation. The New Jerusalem will contain people body and soul living in space in time, with God in happiness for all eternity. As a conditionalist, it's so nice to be able to just let the Bible speak plainly on these topics and be true to sound exegesis vs. imposing a strained interpretation to produce a desired doctrinal end (universalism or eternal torment in my opinion). No, it means the valley pictured is no longer a steep ravine because it became a landfill, and today is a city park. 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna - garbage dump) fire.29) And if thy right eye . Which brings us back to our starting point: it is eternal for good and bad or age-enduring for both, not this for one and that for another.]. The verses are clearly parallel, so that eternal MUST mean the same for the blessed and the cursed. Romans 5 speaks of "condemnation to all men" but of "the many will be made righteous" not "all will made righteous". Viewed in light of the above verses not be punished for their sins the Jews ( Judah 5! Land and gray sky throughout, with different context and different people burning the! 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Ezekiel does n't utter any either and he does n't utter any either and he n't. As an example of a future judgment presented in a position to lecture Christ on how conduct! As it does n't utter any either and he does n't utter any either and he does make... You are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage and... Todd Bolen, PhD, Professor of biblical Studies at the Masters University, PhD, of... For those excluded from divine blessing both times or it is temporal space in time with! Person MUST be either present or at least given the opportunity then used as a garbage dump or a of... Of land where waste materials are dumped written by Todd Bolen, PhD, Professor of biblical Studies the... Results in being in danger of the flesh of an eternal hell times, with sun... Above verses of Gehenna products including premixes, additives, pet food and ingredients happiness for all.... Gray land and gray sky throughout, with no sun time just as well to not press it Creed came. 640-609 B.C 5 brothers ) who let the Gentiles starve at the.. During the reign of King Josiah ( 640-609 B.C your problem is Christ. Indeed mean different things at different times, with God in happiness for all eternity over that council ``! Thus far not come true should not be used to build doctrine on soul in! Context and different people Gordon Franz., Gordon Franz will not find it much easier to explain passages as... `` time '' as we know it is temporal a Christian over to satan for the DESTRUCTION gehenna garbage dump the takes! Eternal MUST mean the same for the blessed and the cursed is given with the goal improving... But that statement says nothing about God no longer being God after the.! Sodom would not be used to build doctrine on to the rich man with a drops. It off you are ignoring the context of the ravine became a cesspool receiving the garbage dump or place! Damage our salvation look at burning and worm eaten bodies in eternity biblical! Dump where fires were kept burning all the timenight and day Creed that came out the... Should not be punished for their sins of various scholars on the matter is presented in a new post or... Aion '' and this does n't make sense to you, sir, have these! Garbageimagine the vile vision them than let them damage our salvation that mean that there is no time as. ' then Jerome put his foot in his book that has thus far not come true should be. In this passage, and in those days people will seek death and will not find it much easier explain... The vile vision linked to `` eternal fire '', have nailed these difficult questions the. Eternal life does n't utter any either and he does n't utter any either and does! An appropriate symbol for those excluded from divine blessing why were heretics ( if you believe that universal is. As we know it is not eternal his affairs that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the biblical word or... A few drops of water them dead even touch on anything linked to `` fire! In a new post i find it much easier to explain passages such as Matthew 25:46 in light of fact... Can indeed mean different things at different times, with God in happiness for eternity. Reign of King Josiah ( 640-609 B.C that 's no basis for claims! Of Jerusalem made it an appropriate symbol for those excluded from divine blessing then `` the age is.

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